<Ricardo,
<Open your mouths boldly and make known the mystery of the gospel!>
Peter:<What is the mystery of the Gospel? >
Ricardo:< LOL! lets start another thread for this one!
<Open your mouths boldly and make known the mystery of the gospel!>
Peter:<What is the mystery of the Gospel? >
Ricardo:< LOL! lets start another thread for this one!
posted by:
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Washington, D.C.
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 9:02 AMThe bible is pretty straight forward so what is the mystery? Well first lets look at what the Gospel is:
Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Gospel means Good news, and Jesus taught the Good news of the kingdom of God. Many have forsaken the good news of the kingdom of God, for a Gospel on heaven. But Jesus didn't come here to deliver rest to the dead, but life for the living. The mystery of Kingdom of God is that it is here now. Jesus delivered it! it is not here or there but within the hearts of believers. For now the kingdom remains with us hidden from the world, but in its appointed time it will be revealed and shared with all.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
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Mat 13:33 ¶ Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
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Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
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Luk 17:20 ¶ And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them].
Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
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This is the mystery of the Gospel the will of God being done on earth as it is in heaven in the hearts of his people while world remains not so blissfully unaware. At the appointed time Christ will be reveal and we all will sing the name of the lord with one voice! -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:12 AM>>>>>But Jesus didn't come here to deliver rest to the dead, but life for the living.<<<<
Let's keep in mind that Jesus considered Abraham to still be one of the living, not the dead.
Further, he told the 'good' thief on the cross that 'today you will be with me in paradise.' Do you think he meant, 'both our useless corpses will be rotting in the same ground'? I think not.
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:52 AM<Let's keep in mind that Jesus considered Abraham to still be one of the living, not the dead.
Further, he told the 'good' thief on the cross that 'today you will be with me in paradise.' Do you think he meant, 'both our useless corpses will be rotting in the same ground'? I think not.
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That's good point to remember that sometime Jesus spoke symbolically. The living, meaning spiritually alive. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 12:58 PM>>>>>The living, meaning spiritually alive. <<<<<<
But those on whom the last judgment falls heavily (-the goats) will still be living too. The damned are not dead, you know. They would *rather* be dead, I suspect. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:46 AM<But those on whom the last judgment falls heavily (-the goats) will still be living too. The damned are not dead, you know. They would *rather* be dead, I suspect. >
Not sure what you mean by that, but Jesus is pretty clear that the second death, the lake of fire, is perminate and difinitive. Those some people and some bad translations describe eternal suffering, that is not what the bible says, it speaks of an eternal end of living, a death of no return. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 12:24 PM>>>>>>Not sure what you mean by that, but Jesus is pretty clear that the second death, the lake of fire, is perminate and difinitive. Those some people and some bad translations describe eternal suffering, that is not what the bible says, it speaks of an eternal end of living, a death of no return. <<<<<<
Are you saying that the second death, the lake of fire, is both permanent AND passing? Please share the translation(s) you're working with. I've never heard of the idea that the damned *cease* living. If that were true, wouldn't Satan have ceased living? -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:41 PMJesus spoke of sheol, which is simply death, this is translated as hades or hell often in most translations. The original Greek does not suggest eternal suffering in the lake of fire but rather absolute consumption from which there is no return, eternal destruction. Eternal life is the gift of Christ to those who accept his grace, if one has eternal life in the lake of fire then how is the lake of fire all consuming? in fact, by definition something that exists forever is never consumed, even if ony one atom of ones existence was burned off every million years, your time in the lake of fire would be finite, although granted, a very long time, and it wouldn't be very painful. Logic also dictates that a God of love and mercy would not delight in the suffering of anyone forever. Consider these sites for more information:
www.thetruthabouthell.org/
www.thercg.org/books/ttah.html
www.helltruth.com/Home/Hath...fault.aspx
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:46 PM>>>>>if one has eternal life in the lake of fire then how is the lake of fire all consuming?<<<<
The soul cannot be consumed by fire as it is immaterial. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:21 PMBut the disembodied soul is not what will be placed in the fire. At the end of days, all will be raised with their souls and their bodies together. In this state will they enter the judgement seat of Jesus. But then, is the lake of fire literally a lake of fire (core of the earth) - or is it something else...? Isn't our life and the trials we go thru considered "fire?" -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 8:56 AM<But the disembodied soul is not what will be placed in the fire. At the end of days, all will be raised with their souls and their bodies together. In this state will they enter the judgement seat of Jesus. But then, is the lake of fire literally a lake of fire (core of the earth) - or is it something else...? Isn't our life and the trials we go thru considered "fire?" >
You are wise to see that fire has a symbolic meaning and is not necessarily literal. Although the fire of the lake of fire is not meant for purification but for absolute and perminate destruction.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:21 PMWhen the soul is without God, If is on FIRE. Not in the way of consuming, but the lack of. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 8:52 AM<When the soul is without God, If is on FIRE. Not in the way of consuming, but the lack of.>
But the bible disagrees with you, Jesus said that the damned would be consumed.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
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Something that is burned is consumed. But I do agree that seperation from God is the source of the spiritual fire, as the greek word tranlated in the bible as torment actually means pruned or cut off. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 11:57 AMNot true. Fire does not consume fire. When we become all flame, then will not be burned. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 12:35 PM<When we become all flame>
I would be interested in where this teaching comes from....
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 12:45 PM<Not true. Fire does not consume fire. When we become all flame, then will not be burned. >
Interesting idea, still in the case of the lake of fire, it is described as a consuming fire that can not be quenched and who worm is never satified, how any thing be expected to survive for long? certainly the imagery is meant to convey that destruction in the lake of fire, once there, is unavoidable, likewise Jesus spoke of being cut off for eternity. By every accounts the lake fire is the second death and is all consuming. Is it not written what God has made he can destroy? -
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Unsu...
What is Eternal?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 1:47 PMMat 25:41-46 (NASB)
"Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' "Then they themselves also will answer, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
"Then He will answer them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
How is the punishment of the wicked not for eternity? Does this not compare the eternal punishment of the wicked to the eternal life of the righteous? So, if the punishment is not forever, would that not mean that the life is not forever? (In whatever way you wish to define "punishment" and "life.") -
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Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 8:31 AM<How is the punishment of the wicked not for eternity? Does this not compare the eternal punishment of the wicked to the eternal life of the righteous? So, if the punishment is not forever, would that not mean that the life is not forever? (In whatever way you wish to define "punishment" and "life.")
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Geppy I beg you to look at the original text, Jesus doesn't say eternal punishment, but will be eternally cut off from life.
<How is the punishment of the wicked not for eternity? Does this not compare the eternal punishment of the wicked to the eternal life of the righteous? So, if the punishment is not forever, would that not mean that the life is not forever? (In whatever way you wish to define "punishment" and "life.")
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I am not sure what you are saying here, the righteous have life eternal and the unrighteous an eternal death. If you can feel pain and suffering then you are alive. The eternal death spoken of in the bible is perminate nonexistence, the point being is that they will never see another resurrection or afterlife. Think about it, how can God who's mercy and grace and sacrifice has given us eternal life, the God of love, how could he possible be willing punish anyone for an eternity, that is a damn long time! in comparison the short time that we have spent here will be not even a nano second in comparison. There is no reasoning by which that makes sense unless God is instead a God of hate, which he is not. Clearly reading the original text of the bible no such after life exists. Why would Jesus come to deliver us everlasting life, if by the nature of our souls we already had it? The idea of an immortal soul is not bibical, neither is an eternal damnation. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 9:35 AMI would also suggest that you may wish to reread the context. The passage I quoted occurs after the resurrection of all the dead - all are bodies/souls together. Then there is judgment where some go to life eternal and some to punishment eternal. That has been Scripture thru the OT and NT. You can try to coerce the original language all you want, but you have thousands of years of interpretation that is the opposite of what you are here saying you believe.
Just because you have the Spirit doesn't mean you are right. If your belief goes against what the Spirit has said for thousands of years, then you are wrong.
<Why would Jesus come to deliver us everlasting life, if by the nature of our souls we already had it?>
Here there is a confusion between living (existing) which has been eternal and will be eternal, and with life with the Creator. Being with YHWH is life and not being with YHWH is death. But either way we exist. -
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Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 9:47 AM<Just because you have the Spirit doesn't mean you are right. If your belief goes against what the Spirit has said for thousands of years, then you are wrong. >
I don't ask you to take my word for it, but to listen to the spirit, examine the evidence, the image of hell that many have doesn't come from the bible. it is not thousands of years old, but a few hundred. Seek the truth of this matter and you will find it. The wages of sin are death, not eternal life with suffering, death. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 10:00 AMI wanted to apologize. Re-reading my response it came off as attacking and I did not mean to do that. Please forgive? -
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Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 10:23 AM<I wanted to apologize. Re-reading my response it came off as attacking and I did not mean to do that. Please forgive?>
Geppy, truly there is never a time that you need to seek my forgiveness, as God as my witness you are my brother and I take no offense.
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Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 9:58 AM<Here there is a confusion between living (existing) which has been eternal and will be eternal, and with life with the Creator. Being with YHWH is life and not being with YHWH is death. But either way we exist.
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That is true for now, but revelations speaks of a final destruction of both hell, death and the wicked. What is the point of casting hell in to the lake of fire? if not to destroy it? if hell continues after being cast into the lake of fire, then the fire is quenched and no longer consuming. It is not I that has fudged the original language. Reading the original Aramaic reveals a destiny of destruction for the unrighteous a perminate death, even death it self is slated to be destroyed. The idea of eternal hell started with Dante's Inferno a poem written in the thirteen hundreds and later reinforced with the king james version of the bible in 1611 prior to that, it has no Christian basis. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is Eternal?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 10:53 AMBy thousands of years I refer to the Scriptures (Old Testament).
From the old testament it does speak of the unquenchable fire and the worm that does not die, and to eternal life and eternal punishment. I have not spent much time reading / studying yet so have not formed much in the way of a thought process - but instead am going off memory and a couple Googles.
Try this URL: www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/ot.html
I'm interested in your thoughts on both the two passages mentioned and the interpretation given. I will try to do more of my own research over the weekend and see if I can pose a better thought process.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 8:46 AM<The soul cannot be consumed by fire as it is immaterial. >
Certainly the reference to fire, is that is a spiritual one that consumes spirit. How can it cause pain or suffering if it doesn't consume? When we are burned by fire it hurts because our cells are being consumed. The point of stressing that the lake of fire can not be quenched is to stress that you can not stop it from consuming you. If it does not, then truly it is quenched! -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 2:25 PMOnly by returning to God and loving God, with all your heart, can the fire be but out. The souls in Hell don't disappear they burn untill the end of time. Being without the Father is Hell. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 8:33 AM<Only by returning to God and loving God, with all your heart, can the fire be but out. The souls in Hell don't disappear they burn untill the end of time. Being without the Father is Hell. >
The bible disagrees with you, we are mortal souls and the second death is perminate the lake of fire is all consuming and can not be quenched.
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 10:12 AM<Only by returning to God and loving God, with all your heart, can the fire be but out. The souls in Hell don't disappear they burn untill the end of time. Being without the Father is Hell>
You make a good point here that I would call you to make note of "Only by returning to God and loving God,"
Loving God, the same that taught us to love our enemies and to do good to them. No where does it say that he casts his mery into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is a mercy for beings that otherwise face an eternity of suffering. Hell the storage place of souls is likewise destroyed so even if they could quench the fire they have no where to be! -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:23 PMEvery human being on this Earth is a child of God, No matter what or who they are. To offer them the life or to teach them the way to Life everlasting; this is Loving your enemies.
LIFE means Light; Everything that God has given us out of his mouth has Life in it. The Earth, Life on and inn the Earth all have Life.
Death mean darkness; Is what man takes from God and makes for his own use. A tree has Life, if you pore water on it, it will live and make more Life.
Man will make a 2x4 out of a tree, this tree no longer will grow or make life, and if you pore water on the 2x4 it will rote. Because the 2x4 is now dead.
If Jesus said let the dead bury the dead, That means all of us are dead, When he said he was once dead, but now is alive for every more. (He is telling you, if he can be above the dead so can you.) and he told you how to do it and what to look for on the way their.
When you can't see the Holy Image of God, and you can't hear his word. You are the dead.
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 11:15 AMThe gosple is about LIFE.
God' s LAW is LIFE. Or you amd me would not be here.
Jesus did only the will of God he taught and gave LIFE freely.
The whole Bible is about LIFE cleansing, fasting and the Kingdom of God. In the Kingdom of God their NO disease, sickness, or death. In the Kingdom on Mother Earth their is NO disease, sickness, or death. I AM that truth and LIFE. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:50 AM"I AM that truth and LIFE. "
Amen! I am always happy to hear someone taking advantage of the life that Jesus has prepared for us, too many chose not too, or are decieved in believing that they haven't the choice. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 1:45 PMHow many remember the Gospel you first heard when you accepted Jesus Christ as your personel Savour?
Been following this topic too...More and more now are we seeing more evidence
of the topic of the Kindgom of Heaven. Jesus said it is within us. Everyone has
a picture in their heart of paradise, or even the picture they carry of the description
of the New Jerusalem. The longing in our hearts for Christ return is with great expections.
Yes, there needs to be more fellowship about the Kingdom to come, under our Lord the King..
King of kings and Lord of lords... What a glorious day it shall be...
Jesus told them that ...God is the God of the Living not the dead.
In our faith we know that Christ defeated death and took the keys.
The battle is already over and the war is won...we are the victorious generation of Jesus Christ.
AS it is written so shall it be done...word for word.
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 8:48 PMHappy the Kingdom is right in front of you, and if you could see the Holy Image of God within then I could show it to you.
The kingdom in Earth Has to be the exact Image of the Kingdom of God or it is a lie. And the Kingdom dose look just like the Kingdom of Heaven. Theirs No death just Life is all you can see.
Thy will be done IN Earth as it is in Heaven. So it better LOOK JUST like Heaven.
You will know him by his fruits. All my fruit have life, and can see the Kingdom on earth.
The only thing thay all did that was the same, was the Baptism that Jesus taught.
How come all God's children on earth are God's and yet they are dying. God's don't die. God's live forever. Dead men die.
God's Law is LIFE. Jesus did the will of God he gave LIFE. I do the will of God I give LIFE in his Name.
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Unsu...
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 8:55 PMI'm sorry, but I just have to ask....
Are you aware of people who have lived more than 100 years? 200 years? Just curious as you keep talking about how you keep talking about living forever now.
The righteous of all time have been promised to be raised from their sleep and to live forever. But the living forever part has not yet been given, else the blessed apostles would still be with us. We know in part and see in part now, but it is still only a reflection. The fullness of times is not yet, and so the fullness of the promise is not yet. The fullness of times will come when Yeshua returns to establish his kingdom and to put down the pretender god. Beware the pretender, for he will come first with signs of great power and wonder.
And here is just my thoughts, the pretender is alive now and we will all see him in our lifetimes. -
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Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Fri, October 5, 2007 - 10:52 PMI don't mind you asking this kind.
Are you aware of people who have lived more than 100 years? YES.
Being above the dead dose not mean you are not going die. Just means you have everlasting Life. You can be very much alive and die.
What it means is you are not going to die of a disease, you will be leaving this earth naturally and full of life.
The great pretender already has you. I don't mean that in a bad way. Only by Jesus Baptism can you be free from him.
Once you do Jesus Baptism can you see the pretender. Once you SEE the Holy Image of God, then all truth will be reviled onto you.
Jesus Baptism is not the SAME as John's.
JOHN3
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about PURIFYING.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same BAPTIZTH, and all men come to him.
Jesus Baptism is greater than John's. All the churches do some forum of john's Baptism.
You have to look at what Baptism Jesus Taught, and where he taught it, and how he taught it, and then do it.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. God did not make his Temple to be full of diseases.
Jesus gave life, so that means death and disease is a sin. What makes death and disease? THE WORLD. LIFE comes from GOD, DEATH comes from the WORLD.
Just think about it. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is the mystery of the Gospel?
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 9:49 AMOk, so you speak of "life" not in the sense of living but in the sense of how you live and the fullness in which you live it.
I would just suggest that not all things are metaphorical only. There will be a single entity who will be THE pretender god. He lives now (in my opinion) and we will all soon meet him on the world stage (if we haven't already). Beware the pretender and remember the Law of YHWH - especially the "you shall have no other gods but ME." YHWH is a jealous God (his own claim), and he does not put up with others claiming to be in his seat of power.
Just because we have the life of Jesus and the Spirit indwells us - that does not make us YHWH (I AM). It just means that YHWH lives within us - his temple. Be careful of this distinction - for we have not become YHWH; but instead have been imputed with the status of "sons of YHWH" because of Jesus. It is not our natural status, but a status of grace.
Malachi 4:1-4 (NASB)
"For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing, says the LORD of hosts.
Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel."
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