Our Love One for Another

topic posted Tue, September 25, 2007 - 7:30 AM by  Peter
It is written that disciples of Jesus are identified by their love one for another. But how is it possible for us to show love for one another online?

When I have fellowship/discussion in person, over a meal, or ending with a hug, it feels very different from my online fellowship/discussions, which tend to feel more like debates. Online communication is text only, and often seems to end in faith being doubted, because of words and not because of deeds. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. But, sometimes, it feels like we’re tearing each other down, rather than building each other up. I mean something more than just being nice. I mean how do we show love to one another.

I’m relatively new to the online blogging experience, and I’m aware that I’m not good at demonstrating Christian love online. I’m struggling to be understood. So, maybe it’s just something I’m feeling.
Anyone have suggestions or solutions regarding love demonstrations that they would like to share?

Peace,
Peter
posted by:
Peter
New York City
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Our Love One for Another

    Tue, September 25, 2007 - 9:26 AM
    I hear you Peter! It really is sort of strange. I come at it assuming that we all mean well, and I assume others do too.

    That said, I agree that we run into "discussions" that seem to be far less than edifying. One person actually claimed that this being the internet, that church-like attitudes did not apply. But we are a body of believers joining together in the name of our LORD. That makes this at the least church-like.

    An internet friend of mine and I are from very different backgrounds and have had the same sort of discussions. The attempt at returning to good discussions is by placing boundaries on the discussion. Such as: specific version, specific books, specific audience, etc. Hopefully this will work and we can return to good discussions without our backgrounds getting in the way. It is just too hard to have an equal level discussion with our different backgrounds and our different assumptions without setting "ground rules."

    Anyway, just an idea.
    • Re: Our Love One for Another

      Thu, September 27, 2007 - 12:35 AM
      Geppy: One person actually claimed that this being the internet, that church-like attitudes did not apply. But we are a body of believers joining together in the name of our LORD. That makes this at the least church-like.

      Ces't moi?

      I think I explicitely doubted whether a church could "assemble" online and engage in genuine worship. Part of that question, I suppose, is "What constitutes worship?" Are you really an assembly if many of the traditional rituals of the Christian faith cannot be engaged in when you "assemble" (like partaking of the Lord's Supper, or communal prayer and song-praise, or the baptizing of new believers)? And I don't mean to be rhetorical... I would love to have a conversation with someone who explained why worship does not need to include these traditional activities (although, out of respect to Peter's topic, perhaps that conversation should be in another thread).

      But for the record, I agree "christian talk" is a church-like site. I might even call it a para-church.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Our Love One for Another

        Thu, September 27, 2007 - 4:42 AM
        Forgive Joseph, but I was not speaking of you. But instead of other older conversations in another group that a number of us probably read.

        As far as assembly though, our modern day assembly is so different than it was. The Lord's Supper was an actual supper with people eating food and sharing their resources with each other - especially with those who could not provide resources. And no, we cannot do that online - but we don't do that at church either. The Lord's Supper, and in fact the Old Covenant tithe were about getting together to partake of the LORD's bounty together and give honor to the one that provided the bounty. If only that were truly still the purpose of communion...
        • Re: Our Love One for Another

          Thu, September 27, 2007 - 7:02 AM
          Oops. Sorry to jump to the wrong conclusion, Geppy.

          But I should also say I have participated in the love feast at church... just not at a stateside church. The practice hasn't disappeared from the larger Christian communion. And I suspect you could find fellowships here in America practicing it as well.
          • Re: Our Love One for Another

            Thu, September 27, 2007 - 7:04 AM
            What kind of church do you go to Joseph?
            Sounds like it's a wonderful place.
            • Re: Our Love One for Another

              Thu, September 27, 2007 - 7:46 AM
              The church that kept the love feast was in Tsuruoka, Japan (up in the northwest of the main island). It was one of two we attended during the two years we stayed there teaching English. We would rise up early Sunday morning to fellowship at a house church comprised of a couple of farm families (they were affiliated with a charismatic church in Tokyo, and engaged in a similar style of worship to our own), and after about an hour, when their meeting ended, we'd wheel it over to Midori Machi Lutero Kyokai (a Lutheran Brotherhood church). But you couldn't just tip out of Midori Machi after the sermon. They would immediately go to a foyer, recline at a rather large table, and begin passing around the foodstuffs each family had brought. I think at first we thought it was just a pot-luck lunch, and so we would sometimes leave without partaking. Finally, though, the pastor (who could muddle through English) explained to us that we shouldn't make a practice of missing the meal... it was in effect their communion service! Avoiding it was kind of like saying we didn't think of ourselves as their brethren-in-Christ. That was a really big oops.

              I think the practice grew on us. Neither my wife nor I ever developed much of a taste for the pickled and heavily salted fare that these rural folks seemed to favor, but the company was wonderful. And the saints helped us learn a lot of Japanese over the table. Shonai-ben (the rural dialect). They'd laugh at our hideous mispronunciations, and cheer when we got a phrase or two right. It was a hoot!

              I've wondered, since I returned, whether Lutheran Brotherhood churches here in the States also practice the love feast, but I never investigated the matter. When we returned stateside we took up again with the Pentecostal church that we were members of before. I suspect in many folks' eyes, they'd appear fairly conventional compared to the Japanese churches (eg., communion wafers and grape juice). But we love them too.
              • Re: Our Love One for Another

                Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:38 AM
                "I think the practice grew on us. Neither my wife nor I ever developed much of a taste for the pickled and heavily salted fare that these rural folks seemed to favor, but the company was wonderful. And the saints helped us learn a lot of Japanese over the table. Shonai-ben (the rural dialect). They'd laugh at our hideous mispronunciations, and cheer when we got a phrase or two right. It was a hoot!"

                your experience is the stuff of great memories that will last. I would love to hear more.
                I went to a pentecostal church once. But that is a whole different line of conversation, I do not want to open that can of worms. I would hope it was just one bad experience.
  • Re: Our Love One for Another

    Tue, September 25, 2007 - 9:48 AM
    Well lets start with a consenus of what love is. Hugging, kissing and kind words can be manifestations of love, but to me love is giving, not just affection, but time and resources. What kind of love kisses and yet denies help. I am not saying that it is bad to hug and have kind words, but rather that truer evidence of love is in our willingness to help one another, whether it be through our words, our time, or our resources. In love we engage one another for the edification of all, this can be bitter at times, but love doesn't turn away from bitterness. The fact that we argue and remain dedicated to each other is a strong sign of love.
    • Re: Our Love One for Another

      Tue, September 25, 2007 - 7:48 PM
      Ricardo,

      <I am not saying that it is bad to hug and have kind words, but rather that truer evidence of love is in our willingness to help one another, whether it be through our words, our time, or our resources.>
      The thing is, in this kind of forum we lack the opportunity to help one another "tangibly." I think that helps build community more than talking. Generally, all we have here is typed words. (Plus, I'm not comfortable enough with the Internet to get too personal in my posts.)

      Sometimes when I'm spending time with a brother that's going through something, he'll "vent." I don't really say much of anything. I don't try to fix or solve the issue. He doesn't even want me to try. He just needs to let someone know what's going on. He needs someone to hear him, and I'm there listening. But, in this forum, if someone posts that they're going through and I don't post and "say something" I kinda feel like I'm ignoring what they're going through. I'm not. I'm just listening.

      For some reason it feels condescending to post "I'll be praying for you." It doesn't feel that way when I say it.

      <love doesn't turn away from bitterness.>
      Yeah, but hurt people do. We probably all get enough bitterness from "the world." I don't desire to cause bitterness for other Christians. Even if you forgive me for it ;)

      Anyway, I'm posting on this because the Internet is a very powerful tool. I'm just affirming my desire to use it to communicate more better. I'm still here!

      Peace,
      Peter
  • Re: Our Love One for Another

    Tue, September 25, 2007 - 12:09 PM
    I agree, Peter. In fact, I almost deleted this tribe today because it doesn't make me feel very good to be here. I know love isn't all about "feeling good", but it just seems like there's more debate about theology (which I believe is more pride-fueled than God-fueled) than there is edification of the body or glorification of God. I think we can show each other love and care, online... I definitely feel genuine support from some of my other tribes. I think I say over and over how important I think it is to hear God. It seems obvious that if that was what we were doing we would all be in agreement instead of constant disagreement. I'm not very good at this myself, but I hope to be more influenced by God's Spirit than my prideful self, one day. Maybe this kind of debate-type forum is right for some people, it just doesn't feel to me like it's about God.
    • Re: Our Love One for Another

      Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:01 PM
      Kelsey,

      <I think we can show each other love and care, online... I definitely feel genuine support from some of my other tribes.>
      Are you comfortable giving an example of how you experience this?

      I'm realizing that most of my communication in tribes is debate. And, unfortunately, there's not that much difference for me between the Christian tribes and the non-Christian tribes. In part it's because what I'm being taught is not "orthodox" but I'm not a heretic either. At least I don't think so ;)

      Anyway, just hoping to stir up a little Christian love!

      Peace,
      Peter
    • Re: Our Love One for Another

      Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:47 PM
      <Maybe this kind of debate-type forum is right for some people, it just doesn't feel to me like it's about God. >

      Few things could be more about God then the confronting of false doctrines and the illumination of dark places. I post this elsewhere where this topic has likewise been placed and in my mind it bares repeating. We can not simple pat each other on the back and not be willing to do battle against false spirits. We can not shy away from those that seek the truth, for the sake of civility. In doing so, at best we are like man who kept his money buried and had no gain, at worse, we are ourselves filled with false spirits. For the truth is lamp held on high and the shadow do run for cover. And we are solidiers on the battle field of truth, and if in such you find yourself wounded then redress with better armor!





      Eph 6:10 ¶ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.


      Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.


      Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].


      Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


      Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;


      Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;


      Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.


      Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


      Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;


      Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

      Open your mouths boldly and make known the mystery of the gospel! Amen
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        Re: Our Love One for Another

        Tue, September 25, 2007 - 8:58 PM
        Rev 2:1-7 (NLT)
        “Write this letter to the angel of the church in Ephesus. This is the message from the one who holds the seven stars in his right hand, the one who walks among the seven gold lampstands: I know all the things you do. I have seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don’t tolerate evil people. You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars. You have patiently suffered for me without quitting. But I have this complaint against you. You don’t love me or each other as you did at first! Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches. But this is in your favor: You hate the evil deeds of the Nicolaitans, just as I do. Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give fruit from the tree of life in the paradise of God."

        I applaud you for your desire to bring light to the darkness and show falsehood for what it is. Just be careful in your definition of "love" - for if the intended recipient of your love does not see the love or the light from which it comes, of what worth is it?

        And here is a cross post of mine
        ===================
        Respectfully, Ricardo, such an attitude works for some but not all. That goes for both the intended recipients and for the intended speakers. Not all like the in-your-face type approach. And after a while it becomes too much of a burden and not enough of edification. For everything there is a time and a place....
        • Re: Our Love One for Another

          Wed, September 26, 2007 - 12:33 PM
          i think there is a core group of us who do support each other.
          the people i consider the "core group" may be different than who someone besides me may think, I am not saying that people cannot join or leave my idea of this "core group" just that there are 7 or 8 of you that amaze me, I learn from, are respectful and understanding, and i wouldn't have grown in Christ as much as I have without you. And it's your fault I keep coming back to tribe :-D
    • Re: Our Love One for Another

      Thu, September 27, 2007 - 1:05 AM
      Kelsey: I think we can show each other love and care, online... I definitely feel genuine support from some of my other tribes. I think I say over and over how important I think it is to hear God. It seems obvious that if that was what we were doing we would all be in agreement instead of constant disagreement.

      What do the members of those other tribes do that communicates their love? For example, if someone posts about his or her challenges and problems, is it that the members commiserate? Is it that they give counsel from scriptures? Is it that they post intercessory prayers on others' behalf?

      (I belong to an online community where written prayers are often posted. I was skeptical about writing out prayers at first, but as I made a discipline of responding to each prayer request, I discovered folks really derive comfort from reading the intercessions. One time no one apparently responded to one brother's request, and he reposted stinging criticism of how he'd been ignored in his plight. Many of us wrote back that we'd pledge to be more dilligent in answering the prayer requests... folks have come to really depend on them.)

      Besides perhaps seeing debate dry up, what could members in this tribe do proactively to replicate the loving atmosphere of those other tribes?
      • Re: Our Love One for Another

        Thu, September 27, 2007 - 12:01 PM
        I think what we have been talking about lately (all the "fellowship" discussions) is the heart of what I find missing: Relationship. I think that through relationship we earn the right to speak into each other's lives. It is important to know what you believe and why, and to use the word of God to encourage and guide each other, but I think we have all seen theology, at times, become empty without Love. I can say that I love you, as I must love all people because Christ loves me; but I would rather learn to love you through relationship. Maybe some of you have that together here; I don't know, but I have been reading and writing in this tribe since May and haven't really felt it. I'm not really trying to challenge you guys. Like I said: If this is what works for you, then I'm glad for it. Peace..
        • Re: Our Love One for Another

          Fri, September 28, 2007 - 12:15 AM
          Kelsey, can you describe what they do in those other tribes that seems relationship-oriented? I wonder, for example, if they write more informally, casually, like friends texting one another.
  • Re: Our Love One for Another

    Wed, September 26, 2007 - 11:48 PM
    My grandmother used to say love is shown not spoken... and that would mean there are some limitation to how well you can exhibit love in an epistolary environment. It makes me think of great romances in letters (admittedly, only one aspect of "love")--however ardent and emotional the language may be, they always leave a residual feeling of the correspondents' constraints and frustrations at being separated. I'm thinking mainly of the correspondence between John and Abigail Adams (if you get a chance to read their collected letters, do so!): that separation prevented them from showing their love to one another is what makes their writing poignant.

    If we are restricted to only using words, it is likely we'll be frustrated demonstrating love to our brethren. To begin with, we face the question of what constitute loving words. My instinct is to say kind speech is "loving"; after all, we can read how "pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." But that same biblical writer warned that "he who rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with the tongue." In the end, whether the words are soft or sharp, I suppose the best we can hope for is a they are the words we needed to hear!

    Moreover, we notice that reading written messages is so denuded compared to hearing speech... the lack of intonation, inflection, lilt... Have you ever written something just as you would say it only to realize (hopefully before you posted it) how, absent your tonal imput, the words sound dissaffected or surly? It makes you appreciate how much we rely on our voices to add shape and texture to our words; particularly when trying to share the truth IN LOVE.

    Yeah... the more I think about it, this message-board medium is the real challenge. It's like painting with only primary colors.

    Thanks fo an absolutely marvelous topic, though.
  • Re: Our Love One for Another

    Thu, September 27, 2007 - 7:14 AM
    I show love online with my friends by sending hugs this way ---> (((((((((((((((((((Hugssssss))))))))))))))))) and let them imagine me hugging them. When some tragedy occurs in their life, I send them an e-card online with a special note on it. They know I care. I love sending e-cards as a sign I am thinking of them and am grateful for their friendship. I think you can comfort people with words just as well as a physical hug. There are some people who just need to know we understand. These are all loving ways of showing you care when you cannot be there in person. I developed deep bonds with people at one site some years ago, to the point where we began calling each other "sister"........ We all knew we were loved by each person close to us in that group. We did eventually meet in person at a website reunion, and the feelings were the same. So online love can and does happen. :o) Many times it leads to sharing phone numbers, then eventually meeting.
    • Re: Our Love One for Another

      Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:30 AM
      CatMeow wrote "show love online with my friends by sending hugs this way ---> (((((((((((((((((((Hugssssss)))))))))))))))))"

      When I was pregnant with the twins, there was a group of pregnant ladies who were due at the same time across the country who posted on a aol board. They set up a baby gift exchange and we had an online baby shower in a chat room.
      We still talk, Send Christmas cards ETC...

      when I was posting regularly on the Crafty Vixens tribe, they set up craft trades, and i still talk to some of those girls.

      Tribe doesn't have different fonts or smiley faces or other cute stuff, but i suppose the guys wouldn't care much about that stuff

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