Christian talk's topics - tribe.net

When the brook dried...

Joseph — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:11:41 GMT

On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us.
--2 Corinthians 1:10b (NIV)

My father-in-law put his foot down. He refused to allow me to take advantage of him "a day longer" than we agreed. We had already proven to be the nightmare case of "boomerang kids"--his daughter, his grandson, and I--having lived under his roof for almost a calendar year. Now, with the final deadline looming, he was in no mood to give an extension--even if I was waiting to hear back about an application for an apartment.

I was terrified because I could not imagine where I could house my family until our new accomodations were finalized. Since my financial collapse the year before, I had saved up enough for the downpayment and the month-and-a-half security, but I didn't see a way I could also afford a hotel stay in the interim. But I knew I couldn't miss Dad's deadline; he might not have thrown us to the curb, but I would have destroyed any vestiges of his patience and my own dignity.

Quite miraculously, though, my wife was approached by our Church Mother--an octagenarian living alone in a two-floor duplex with a spare bedroom--who told her she dreamed we asked to stay with her for a while. We had carefully concealed our troubles from our church family, so I could only explain the offer as divine intervention. Our brook Cherith had dried up, but God had prepared a widow in Zarephath. We stayed with Mother until we signed the lease to our new apartment three weeks later.

The Lord will uphold us through any trial or adversity. He shows up in the nick of time.

posted in Christian talk - 1 reply

Can you recommend a Christian movie?

Joseph — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:01:46 GMT

Can anyone recommend a good Christian movie?
I mean other than the sword-and-sandle epics
of the fifties, like Ben Hur and The Robe, or the
Jesus biopics, like The Greatest Story Ever Told.

Are there any contemporary stories that someone
would recommend as a DVD pick?

- Joseph

posted in Christian talk - 11 replies

The Message

wyldstar — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:06:56 GMT

Matthew 28
Risen from the Dead
1-4 After the Sabbath, as the first light of the new week dawned, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to keep vigil at the tomb. Suddenly the earth reeled and rocked under their feet as God's angel came down from heaven, came right up to where they were standing. He rolled back the stone and then sat on it. Shafts of lightning blazed from him. His garments shimmered snow-white. The guards at the tomb were scared to death. They were so frightened, they couldn't move.

5-6The angel spoke to the women: "There is nothing to fear here. I know you're looking for Jesus, the One they nailed to the cross. He is not here. He was raised, just as he said. Come and look at the place where he was placed.

7"Now, get on your way quickly and tell his disciples, 'He is risen from the dead. He is going on ahead of you to Galilee. You will see him there.' That's the message."

posted in Christian talk - 0 replies

i get sad now and again (-like now)

nightowl — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:08:16 GMT

i can't cope sometimes, when i go on my emotional roller coasters, which isn't often. just thought i'd say hi to evyerone and reach out while i'm feeling a bit down in the dumps. Lol. i've been finding it hard to resist slipping back into a couple of old unChristian like behaviours of mine again like astrology and a hardened heart etc, when i know i shouldn't. i'm just looking for comfort perhaps or self-protection i guess 'cos i fell out with my best friend and now i feel all alone. life eh? But i know i should only trust in God. blessings.

posted in Christian talk - 8 replies

Mountain top Experiances

The Passenger — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:33:00 GMT

Here is a Biblical Example
Jesus took Peter James and John up to the Mountain top to witness the Transfiguartion
The Heavens opened
Moses and Elijah were there also

Peter was so high on life at that moment that
He asked Jesus If they could build tents to live there

You see he wanted to stay there forever
But they had to return to the real world ...the valley
To minester to everyone else

In life we have alot of ups and downs
The up's are meant to help us remmeber how awsome life can be
The downs are meant to teach us to appeciate the good times

posted in Christian talk - 2 replies

Dr. Bill Hamon ....Christian International

The Passenger — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:21:41 GMT

Here is a book that fell from the sky into my hands while I was in jail
Then another one by the same author...then another still
Then come to find out the auther actually is a bishop at Christian International Church just about 40 mins from my house......Must be a sign

http://www.spiritwatch.org/firehamonrevu.htm

"The Prophets Are Coming - Prepare"

The above is a heading on page 15 of the book. Here is what Hamon says under that heading:

I believe that this is an age in which God is raising up a multitude of prophets who are anointed and appointed- honest, true, trained, and experientially matured. But mixed in among these will be found those prophets who are ignorant, immature, and even false. There will be no place to hide the saints from them in this day of mass media reaching into every home. So the only true salvation from the enemy's falsehoods will be to expose the saints purposefully and properly to true prophets, educate them to discern true from false, and train them in how to respond (19).

Jesus warned us that there would be many false prophets in the last days. He said that as we saw the day approaching that many would come in His name and deceive many. But, is our only "salvation from the enemy's falsehoods be to expose the saints to true prophets, and educate them to know the true from the false?" Who will train the saints? Will the true prophets train the saints? How will the saints know the true prophets are the ones teaching them about false prophets? Could it be that the deception would be so great that false prophets could teach the saints that the true prophets are false? How are the saints to know? Is this their only true salvation from the enemy's falsehoods?

Surely, it is true that in order to tell the true from the false we must be very familiar with that which is the real thing. The prophets are not the real thing. Even the true prophets are not the real thing. The only real thing is the only true prophet and that prophet is the Lord Jesus Christ, our prophet, priest and King. If we are in intimate fellowship with Him we will know the real thing when he comes along and will know enough to tell the difference.

If we want to know the truth about the witnesses let us look at 1 John beginning at chapter 5 verse 7.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

It is a wonderful thing when we receive the witness of others confirming what God has spoken to us. What a comfort, and assurance. But if no one else believes then our faith must remain true in Him even as Job who had the witness of highly intelligent and godly men who used scriptural truth in order to sway him from his trust.

This book teaches that there are many ignorant and uneducated Christians who must be taught the true prophets from the false. I say that this is true in a small way but the ministry of the prophet, teacher, pastor, or saint is to lead them to Jesus and to the Word of God, not to the prophet himself. The true spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus.

New Doctrine Founded On This Special Ministry

Next, we are told with the word prophet boldly emphasized in the text, that Malachi prophesied the coming of the great prophet John the Baptist. We are told also that the ministry of John the Baptist was the Elijah ministry prophesied for the ushering in of the Messiah. These things are true. But now listen to the new teaching brought forth by this modern day prophet, Bill Hamon:

John came in the power and spirit of the PROPHET Elijah. Just as one PROPHET, John the baptist prepared the way for Christ's first coming, now a COMPANY OF PROPHETS will prepare the way for Christ's second coming. That COMPANY OF PROPHETS is being raised up in the 1980s. God revealed to me that there are 10,000 PROPHETS on the North American continent alone being prepared to be released within the Church. This COMPANY OF PROPHETS will come forth in the power and spirit of Elijah. They, as a corporate body of PROPHETS, will fulfill the prophecy of Malachi in relation to Christ`s second coming as John the Baptist fulfilled it in relation to Christ's first coming. A single PROPHET prepared the way for the Messiah of Israel and Redeemer of mankind. The COMPANY OF PROPHETS will prepare the way for Jesus the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The one PROPHET prepared the way for Jesus to come and usher in the Church Age; the many PROPHETS will prepare the way for Jesus to come and usher in the kingdom age (23).

Now, what do we have up to this point? We have a distortion of the Scriptures concerning prophets in the New Testament. We have an office of prophet stretched beyond what the Scriptures teach. We then have actual threats of our being in great danger if we touch these apples of God's eye. Then we are told by one of these self proclaimed prophets that he has a new revelation with only one scriptural reference to what he teaches and that reference says nothing of what he is teaching us.

Here is the strongest scriptural basis for this new revelation. We find it on page 20:

There is a real sense in which John the Baptist was Malachi's Elijah-forerunner (Mal.4:5 with Mt.17:12,13); yet it is equally clear that, as a result of our Lord's rejection there is to be a more dramatic, FINAL fulfillment of Malachi's Elijah prediction (Mt. 17:11, 'shall', and Rev. 11). " J. Sidlow Baxter, Explore the Book, (Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Mi,:1966),Pg. 266 (24).

We find in the Scripture referred to that the disciples are asking Jesus about Elijah the prophet coming again. He answers them in this manner in Matthew 17:11-13.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias must first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you , that Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whasoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

he reason for the emphasis on the word "shall" in the text is in order to prove that there will be another coming of Elijah in the last days. It is a dangerous thing to bring a new doctrine in on the strength of one word.

The NIV version of the Bible quotes Jesus thusly. "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things." If a child were to say to us. "I was promised that mother was coming." If we replied "Surely mother shall come as promised but she is already come and is here now." What would we say as to the meaning of these words. Would we say that she has come and must come again? I think that if we can make a doctrine out of the word "shall" then we can take tremendous liberties with the whole Bible.

When Jesus told his disciples that he greatly desired to eat the last Passover with them it was because he was to do a marvelous thing in giving them a New Covenant. The Jews, including Jesus had celebrated the Passover for years always with "the cup" on the table. This cup was the cup of Elijah. It was upon every Jewish table. After the cup was filled no one was to touch it because it was reserved for Elijah. They knew that Elijah must first come before the Messiah could come. Every year they were disappointed that Elijah did not come and drink the cup.

On that night of the last Passover, Jesus took "the cup" and said "This is the New Testament in my blood". Such a thing would have been unheard of for Jesus to even touch the cup but He had already explained to them that Elijah had already come and that He was John the Baptist. There is no need to wait any more for Elijah to come. He has come and has drank of the cup that God gave him to drink.

"Prophets Prepare The Way For Christ's Coming"

The above is the heading beginning on page 20. Two scriptures are given to prove that this is true:

Isaiah 40:3

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Luke 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

I will leave it up to the reader to read these verses and to determine if they are any indication at all of the premise that prophets will be the ones to usher in the second coming of Jesus.

Read page 21: Prophets play a vital role in God's predestined plan for the final return of Christ to the earth. Acts 3:21 declares that the heavens must receive (retain, Keep, hold, restrain) Christ in heaven until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy PROPHETS since the world began. There are Old and New Testament prophetic scriptures which must be fulfilled before Christ can return. The PROPHETS have been given the anointing and responsibility to receive from Christ the proper revelation and application of these Scriptures They are hidden from the eyes of men until God's time for that truth to be restored and established (25).

Notice that the revealing of the Scriptures is hidden from men. This would of course include the underlings in the Body of Christ. Those underlings are those who are members from the headship ministry down. They cannot receive these revelations until the prophets reveal it to them. It kind of puts us ordinary saints in a perilous and dependent position, doesn't it? When Jesus said of the Holy Spirit "He will show you things to come" (John 16:13), I wonder if it was spoken only to the prophets.

Now we find that the term "restitution of all things, or restoration of all things" refers to the prophets who must restore all things so that Jesus can come from heaven. It puts a lot of responsibility on the prophets doesn't it?

Let us take a moment and look at the term "restoration of all things." Jesus himself said in Matthew 17:11. "Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." Let us say then, with our brother that "Elias must come once again and restore all things." If that is the case the question arises as to what Peter preached in Acts 3:20-21:

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

He then goes on to tell us that all the prophets prophesied of "these DAYS."

Certainly, "these days" are a long time in endurance. John told us that in his time it was the "last days." We are still in the last days. John the Baptist was supposed to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and visa versa in these last days. Now, if Jesus is to be held in the heavens until this restoration of all things then who is the restorer of all things? Is it John the Baptist? Is it Elijah? Is it a company of prophets to come in these last days? Or is it Jesus Himself who will come from heaven with and for his saints and establish his kingdom upon the earth?

Let us look again at the Scripture. The Scripture does not say that anyone on earth will restore all things so that Jesus can come back but "whom the heaven must receive until the TIMES of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken. " Notice how I have emphasized the word "times". When it is time for the restoration of all things then Jesus will come and do the restoring. This is the blessed hope of the Church, not the hope that a company of glorified prophets will do the restoring for a Jesus who is waiting in heaven for them to do their work. He is able to do His own work in His own time and times.

"New Age Approaching"

This heading is found on page 21. I am sure that by this is not meant what we consider the "New Age" doctrine being taught by the secular religionists. But, what new doctrine is this under this heading?

The Church is now in the beginning days of the transition from the age of the mortal Church to the Kingdom Age.

I am sorry, but I was under the impression that the Kingdom was ushered in by John the Baptist and Jesus preaching that the Kingdom of heaven was at hand, or right here, now. I know nothing about the teaching in the Bible of the MORTAL CHURCH.

Then we have this statement.

In his letter to the Ephesian church he explained to them that they had been birthed and built upon the foundational ministries of the apostle and PROPHET (Apostle Paul and PROPHET Silas) with Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone. They were being built together as a holy temple in the Lord, and as the corporate Body of Christ in order for God to have a habitation and headquarters here on earth (26).

The scripture referred to is in Ephesians 2:20:

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.

Notice that the Bible has been changed from the plural to the singular by our author. Not only is this done but names are put in like Paul and Silas. This is gross mis-representation of the scriptures. He seems to be teaching us that the Apostle and prophet had to be there to establish that church. Is this done in order to set up some kind of a new hierarchy in order that a modern day church must have these two ministries in order to be called a New Testament church? Notice that it is said "in order for God to have a habitation and headquarters here on earth." This kind of scriptural interpretation bothers me.

Now we have another statement. "Ephesians 3:5 reveals that apostles as well as PROPHETS now have the ministry of revealing new truth to the Church" (27). Let us see if this is what the passage tells us:

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.

We are told in the book that NOW, present tense, this is true, but the Bible says NOW, meaning at the time of Paul those things had been revealed to the apostles and prophets.

posted in Christian talk - 5 replies

Role of the Watchman

The Passenger — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:26:39 GMT

http://www.watchmanministries.org/watch_of_Lord/watchmanRole1.htm

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Supply side Jesus

Ricardo — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:38:15 GMT

very funny stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK7gI5lMB7M

posted in Christian talk - 3 replies

THE LAW AND THE GOSPEL

goahead — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:50:34 GMT

Oswald Chambers - My utmost for his highest

THE LAW AND THE GOSPEL

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" James 2:10

The moral law does not consider us as weak human beings at all, it takes no account of our heredity and infirmities, it demands that we be absolutely moral. The moral law never alters, either for the noblest or for the weakest, it is eternally and abidingly the same. The moral law ordained by God does not make itself weak to the weak, it does not palliate our shortcomings, it remains absolute for all time and eternity. If we do not realize this, it is because we are less than alive; immediately we are alive, life becomes a tragedy. "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." When we realize this, then the Spirit of God convicts us of sin. Until a man gets there and sees that there is no hope, the Cross of Jesus Christ is a farce to him. Conviction of sin always brings a fearful binding sense of the law, it makes a man hopeless - "sold under sin." I, a guilty sinner, can never get right with God, it is impossible. There is only one way in which I can get right with God, and that is by the Death of Jesus Christ. I must get rid of the lurking idea that I can ever be right with God because of my obedience - which of us could ever obey God to absolute perfection!

We only realize the power of the moral law when it comes with an "if." God never coerces us. In one mood we wish He would make us do the thing, and in another mood we wish He would leave us alone. Whenever God's will is in the ascendant, all compulsion is gone. When we choose deliberately to obey Him, then He will tax the remotest star and the last grain of sand to assist us with all His almighty power.

posted in Christian talk - 1 reply

The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

Josh — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:03:22 GMT

[I'd like to know what members think of this. Follow the link below for some background and the 19 articles--affirmations and denials.]
A Short Statement
1. God, who is Himself Truth and speaks truth only, has inspired Holy Scripture in order thereby to reveal Himself to lost mankind through Jesus Christ as Creator and Lord, Redeemer and Judge. Holy Scripture is God's witness to Himself.
2. Holy Scripture, being God's own Word, written by men prepared and superintended by His Spirit, is of infallible divine authority in all matters upon which it touches: it is to be believed, as God's instruction, in all that it affirms: obeyed, as God's command, in all that it requires; embraced, as God's pledge, in all that it promises.
3. The Holy Spirit, Scripture's divine Author, both authenticates it to us by His inward witness and opens our minds to understand its meaning.
4. Being wholly and verbally God-given, Scripture is without error or fault in all its teaching, no less in what it states about God's acts in creation, about the events of world history, and about its own literary origins under God, than in its witness to God's saving grace in individual lives.
5. The authority of Scripture is inescapably impaired if this total divine inerrancy is in any way limited or disregarded, or made relative to a view of truth contrary to the Bible's own; and such lapses bring serious loss to both the individual and the Church.
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html

[Also posted in Christianity Unplugged]

posted in Christian talk - 15 replies

Evangelical / Fundamentalist---who is who?

Josh — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:39:56 GMT

When you hear (in the news) or read (in the paper or a news magazine) a reference to "fundamentalist Christians" or "evangelicals," who do you take that to mean?

Are Southern Baptists fundamentalists or evangelicals?

I'm not looking to box anyone out or in; I just want to know who these terms (in general usage) refer to. What's your take?

posted in Christian talk - 3 replies

Annihilationism

Josh — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:55:36 GMT

This is one name for the view that the wicked will not suffer an everlasting conscious hell. In other words, only the saved live forever; the damned are utterly destroyed once for all. I think another name for this view is “conditionalism.”

This is a new idea to me. The only thing I can remotely relate to it is “apocatastasis,” the view that in the end Hell will be empty. Origen held this view and it’s the main reason the Catholic Church never declared him a saint. (That plus he castrated himself.) But Origen’s view was that God willed the salvation of all and so, in the end, all would be saved. That’s not annihilationism, which holds (as I understand it) that the lost do not have an afterlife, or at most a minute one.

Is anyone here an adherent of the view? Does anyone here *know* an adherent of this view?

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Systematic Theology, vol 1 Prolegomena and Bible

Josh — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:05:02 GMT

By Dr. Norman Geisler, founder and past-president of Southern Evangelical Seminary. 624 pages.
http://www.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-Vol-Introduction-Bible/dp/0764225510

Anyone else read this (or any other systematic evangelical theology)?

"Prolegomena" refers to the preconditions for theology--philosophical, epestemological, metaphysical, linguistic, hermeneutic, methodological, historical, and so on.

I'm not an evangelical, but I think Geisler gives a thorough account of the basics in this volume of his four-volume series. I may skim the other three volumes, as all in all this work runs around 2,500 pages and I only have the set for a few weeks through inter library loan.

I'd never attempted a Protestant Systematics of this scope before. Curiously, Geisler refers often to Thomas Aquinas, the greatest of Catholic theologians. Not that Geisler is "soft" on Catholicism---he wrote a book about what beliefs Catholics and Evangelicals do and do not have in common---but rather, he values the arguments of Aquinas that are rooted in Scripture and Reason rather than magisterial teaching. Fair enough.

posted in Christian talk - 9 replies

*Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?**

Willthecirclebeunbroken — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:26:30 GMT

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 12 : 50

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Cr 6:14

posted in Christian talk - 13 replies

The Bee factor / Lost tribe of Dan

Willthecirclebeunbroken — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:59:25 GMT

THE LOST TRIBE OF DAN

THE EARLY JEWISH & CHRISTIAN VIEW OF THE IDENTITY OF THE ANTICHRIST

by

Janet Moser

". . .the snorting of his horses was heard from Dan." Jeremiah 8:16

Samson, a Nazarite of the tribe of Dan, judged Israel during the period of Philistine domination. At the feast celebrating his marriage to a Philistine woman, Samson proposed a riddle to the Philistines: "Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness." Judges 14:14 On the seventh day of the feast, the importunate bride extracted from Samson the interpretation of the riddle and related its meaning to her people, viz., that the carcass of a young lion which Samson had killed with his bare hands had attracted a swarm of bees who produced honey therein. Samson paid the wager by slaying thirty Philistines -- after which his wife was taken from him. Angered by their treachery, Samson avenged himself by slaughtering many more Philistines and eventually the Philistine lords.

Several obscure prophecies in the Bible point to the fact that the tribe of Dan will produce the Antichrist. In the context of these prophecies, Samson's riddle may be a prophecy that the descendants of the tribe of Dan will one day try to destroy the tribe of Judah in jealous revenge for God's judgment on their idolatry. From the carcass of the young lion [Judaism] the tribe of Dan [typified by the bees] will attempt to produce a golden age [symbolized by honey]. The conspiracy of the tribe of Dan, aka the Synagogue of Satan, to steal the messianic birthright from the tribe of Judah and establish a false messianic kingdom in Israel is given more detailed treatment in our report, Mystery Babylon: Catholic or Jewish?

To suggest that the Antichrist will be from one of the tribes of Israel is likely to incur accusations of "anti-Semitism" from those who would like to conceal this fact. However, we believe that the Biblical admonition to bless the descendants of Abraham includes exposing the identity of the man of sin who will lead many Jews to their destruction.

The Merovingians, who plan to rule the world from their future throne at Jerusalem, claim to come from the tribe of Judah through Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. However, the weight of evidence indicates that they descended from the tribe of Dan. Although Scripture states that Samson was “of the family of the Danites” [Judges 13:2], Yair Davidy of Brit-Am Israel claims that his lineage includes the Messianic tribe of Judah: “Samson the superman hero came from the Tribe of Dan but his mother was from Judah. Samson, in some respects, was considered a forerunner of the Messiah who will come from Judah but his mother, according to the Midrash will be of the Tribe of Dan.” [Brit-Am Israel newsletter, 2/9/99]

It is through the agency of the ultra-Orthodox Lubavitch Movement that the Gentiles are being prepared to submit to the Noahide Laws under a restored Sanhedrin. Yair Davidy posits, “The name DAN means “judge” in Hebrew. Many lawyers and judges in the USA are of Irish descent of a particular type as is much of the police force . . . Descendants of Dan today appear to be concentrated in Ireland, Britain, the USA, and especially Denmark.” Merovingians are also found leading pseudo-Christian organizations as many profiles in the Council for National Policy and Discernment Ministries reveal. These Merovingian agents actively promote the Hebrew Roots / Messianic Movement as the catalyst for Judaizing Christians.

The following paper is meant to serve as a study guide for understanding the enigmatic design of Satan to use the apostate tribe of Dan as an instrument and cover for a false messiah. The reader will be able to review the many Scriptures which concern the tribe of Dan -- the prophecies, the Danite people, their land, history, idolatry and symbols -- in conjunction with relevant information from other sources.

www.watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html

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Of Jesus and Pagan Myths

Josh — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 17:17:59 GMT

I think Christianity is based on historical events and not on pagan myths. I have set aside a space to discuss the matter with anyone interested.

http://tribes.tribe.net/debateseekers/thread/cfc1741d-68b0-4550-801e-373a0903d01e

(I suspect most people here would agree with my position, but don't let that stop you from discussing the matter!)

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an unfinished life?

Joseph — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:34:34 GMT

A question I saw on a Christian message board…

“Can a Christian go to heaven with an unfinished life? …an undeveloped live?”

"Is it possible for a believer to come to the end of their life without accomplishing all God had for them to accomplish and without being developed to their maximum?"

"Can everyone say with Paul, 'I have finished my course'? Is it possible to say 'I did not finish my course'?"

posted in Christian talk - 2 replies

The Birth of John the Baptist

Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:40:57 GMT

Today (24 June), the Church celebrates the Solemnity of the Birth of John the Baptist. The story is iin the second chapter of Luke's gospel. Elizabeth (John's mother) had been pregnant for six months when the angel of Gabriel appeared to Mary. (The Church celebrates that mystery, the Annunciation, on 25 March, nine months before the Nativty on 25 December.)

I was raised Southern Baptist and knew nothing about the feast days of the liturgical calendar. After becoming Roman Catholic, I learned about the seasons of the liturgical year (Advent/Christmas, Lent, Easter, and Ordinary Time). I find them meaningful and conducive to a more rounded prayer life than I would have if I but followed my whims. (Not that I don't do that IN ADDITION to staying mindful of the liturgical calendar.)

The story of John the Baptist haunts me. It has since childhood. It shall continue to, I'm sure. My life would be poorer without it.

What does the life and death (-that's celebrated in late August, the 29th, I believe) of John the Baptiist mean to you?

posted in Christian talk - 20 replies

A list of authoritative books OR an authoritative list of books?

Josh — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:13:07 GMT

How do you view the Canon of Scripture? Did the early church *determine* the canon, or *discover* it? In Catholic seminary, I heard that the Church determined the canon. Now, however, I’m considering the evangelical view. This is a crucial issue for me because the main reason I became Catholic is that I thought, “If I can’t trust the Church, then how can I trust that the right books were put into the Bible and that they were properly preserved down through the ages?” I thought there had to be a church in order for there to be Scriptures. (Given that much of the NT consists in letters written *to* churches, the Christian church is obviously older than many of its books.)

How did early Christians know what was Scripture and what was not?

posted in Christian talk - 4 replies

The trouble with Clifford

Josh — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:10:20 GMT

In an influential essay called “The Ethics of Belief” the 19th century mathematician W. K. Clifford proclaimed the following epistemic rule. “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything without sufficient evidence.”

Sometimes non-believers appeal to Clifford’s rule during arguments with believers, claiming that the burden of proof falls on believers. This troubles some believers who are philosophical novices, though it should not. For Clifford’s rule is doubly flawed.

First, as many philosophers have noted, Clifford’s rule would cast doubt on many beliefs few seriously question, among them, that other people have minds or that the world continues to exist while one sleeps.

Second, Clifford’s rule is self-defeating. He claims that it is wrong to believe anything upon insufficient evidence, yet he provides *no* evidence for the rule itself. By his own standard, Clifford must judge anyone who accepts his rule as wrong!

Given that, believers may, in Macbeth’s phrase, “beat backward home” appeals to “Clifford’s rule” (-under whatever name it might travel). Conversely, those who doubt the existence of God and wish to argue that it is unreasonable should abandon appeals to Clifford’s rule (because of its obvious flaws) and find another way to challenge theists.

[Cross-posted in Atheists, Christian Talk, Christianity Unplugged, Crossroads of Religion, and The Lion’s Den]

posted in Christian talk - 10 replies

Why me

aluminumfunmonkey — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:43:38 GMT

It's obvious that everyone on line has or has access to a compuitor, have you ever wondered why was I so fortunate to have been born in this country where I have all the opportunity to be prosperous and never go to bed hungry. I can't ever remember worshiping the Lord and looking over my shoulder thinking that if I get caught I could be put to death. I read once that if you have a bowl sitting on your cabinets with pocket change in it you are wealthier than 30% of the people in the world. I have often wondered why me, why was I so lucky ? How about you?

posted in Christian talk - 4 replies

What has GOD blessed you with?

goahead — Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:28:13 GMT

What has GOD blessed you with? What have
you been delivered from? It's very easy to
focus on the unfortunate things in our lives,
but there is always a blessing for those who
love the LORD. Our GOD is a god of blessings.
He restores broken lives, and broken homes.
He tranforms communities and neighborhoods.
Even when things seem dark, there is still a
blessing for those who follow the LORD.
In your darkest hour he will deliver you!
He will use the things that seem bad and
dark in our lives and turn them into light and good.
Oh yes, the times to seem evil and all around
us darkness seems to prevail, but it won't last.
The light always overcomes the darkness. If you
light a small candle in the darkest room isn't the
whole room lit up? Look to GOD and believe the
good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
It is a gift from GOD. The greatest gift!

Grace - Peace - Blessings!

Psalm 107

1 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good!
His faithful love endures forever.
2 Has the Lord redeemed you? Then speak out!
Tell others he has redeemed you from your enemies.
3 For he has gathered the exiles from many lands,
from east and west,
from north and south.

4 Some wandered in the wilderness,
lost and homeless.
5 Hungry and thirsty,
they nearly died.
6 “Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble,
and he rescued them from their distress.
7 He led them straight to safety,
to a city where they could live.
8 Let them praise the Lord for his great love
and for the wonderful things he has done for them.
9 For he satisfies the thirsty
and fills the hungry with good things.

10 Some sat in darkness and deepest gloom,
imprisoned in iron chains of misery.
11 They rebelled against the words of God,
scorning the counsel of the Most High.
12 That is why he broke them with hard labor;
they fell, and no one was there to help them.
13 “Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
14 He led them from the darkness and deepest gloom;
he snapped their chains.
15 Let them praise the Lord for his great love
and for the wonderful things he has done for them.
16 For he broke down their prison gates of bronze;
he cut apart their bars of iron.

17 Some were fools; they rebelled
and suffered for their sins.
18 They couldn’t stand the thought of food,
and they were knocking on death’s door.
19 “Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
20 He sent out his word and healed them,
snatching them from the door of death.
21 Let them praise the Lord for his great love
and for the wonderful things he has done for them.
22 Let them offer sacrifices of thanksgiving
and sing joyfully about his glorious acts.

23 Some went off to sea in ships,
plying the trade routes of the world.
24 They, too, observed the Lord’s power in action,
his impressive works on the deepest seas.
25 He spoke, and the winds rose,
stirring up the waves.
26 Their ships were tossed to the heavens
and plunged again to the depths;
the sailors cringed in terror.
27 They reeled and staggered like drunkards
and were at their wits’ end.
28 “Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
29 He calmed the storm to a whisper
and stilled the waves.
30 What a blessing was that stillness
as he brought them safely into harbor!
31 Let them praise the Lord for his great love
and for the wonderful things he has done for them.
32 Let them exalt him publicly before the congregation
and before the leaders of the nation.

33 He changes rivers into deserts,
and springs of water into dry, thirsty land.
34 He turns the fruitful land into salty wastelands,
because of the wickedness of those who live there.
35 But he also turns deserts into pools of water,
the dry land into springs of water.
36 He brings the hungry to settle there
and to build their cities.
37 They sow their fields, plant their vineyards,
and harvest their bumper crops.
38 How he blesses them!
They raise large families there,
and their herds of livestock increase.

39 When they decrease in number and become impoverished
through oppression, trouble, and sorrow,
40 the Lord pours contempt on their princes,
causing them to wander in trackless wastelands.
41 But he rescues the poor from trouble
and increases their families like flocks of sheep.
42 The godly will see these things and be glad,
while the wicked are struck silent.
43 Those who are wise will take all this to heart;
they will see in our history the faithful love of the Lord.

posted in Christian talk - 17 replies

Slow

Peter — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:48:55 GMT

This is an excerpt from an email I read today from a ministry whose focus is our relationship to money. I thought it worth sharing in general.

Peace,
Peter

"Dear Friends,

<There is a movement growing around the world called The Slow Movement. It encourages a slowing down in everything from cooking food to communication to transportation to careers. As I understand it, it is about making real connections instead of moving at warp speed in everything we do.

Humans need connections, it's how we're built, it's what we're made to do - with ourselves, God and others, both near and far. It is so easy for us in the affluent world to forget this important fact, yet deep human connection is what makes travel in the Two-Thirds World so meaningful and life-giving for those with an opportunity to experience it there. Most Ministry of Money pilgrims returning from a trip speak about the experience of life at a slower pace, the obvious interdependence of people, the gracious hospitality shared and the spirit of generosity among people living in community. We miss it, we want it, but we seem to have forgotten how to let it happen here at home.

I laughed at recent television ads showing adults buying donuts, purchasing plants or standing in line at a food court. Everything is clicking along nicely, happy music and smiling customers, when all of a sudden some backward oaf (who looks like you and me) pulls out his checkbook or cash to pay for his item instead of using a debit card. All of a sudden the snappy music stops, the clerk and other customers grimace and growl, and the quick clip of payment activity comes to a standstill. God forbid someone say "Hi, how ya doing?" to the cashier or the person beside them in line. There's no time for that kind of nonsense. Just swipe the card and move along with your purchase!

There is also a new advertisement for an updated Monopoly Game. Instead of the cardboard 'bank' with the various multi-colored denominations stacked neatly in their assigned slots, the new game has an ATM-type machine in which you swipe a card to buy or make payments on properties, or to get out of jail. A quick swipe and it's done. No learning to count money. No addition or subtraction skills needed. No slowly counting your stash while pondering if you've enough to take an action. No asking to borrow a few bucks from your sister. No having to hand the bills over to the bank or another player. Swipe and go. I bet the game moves much more quickly now than when I was a kid!

We've lost our physical connection to money - the flow of resources moving through our hands and into others'. We've lost the relational aspect of money, the sense of money being for our common good, the give and take that keeps us all afloat. So much of our financial dealings now happen with card swipes and online submit buttons. Money movement has become invisible, and therefore, it often happens without a lot of thought.
We have enough time, you know. It's a lie from the culture that we don't. Maybe money haste is good for banks, merchants and accountants, but it's not good for those of us trying to live with any kind of intentionality.

So this week, strive for connection. Pay in cash a few times. Cook something from scratch - with real ingredients, not pre-packaged microwavable foodstuff. Write a letter instead of sending an email. Better yet, have a face-to-face conversation. Play a board game using paper money. Ask the clerk about her day as she returns your change.

Blessings as we revel in the shades of autumn,
Jan Sullivan>

posted in Christian talk - 2 replies

The Baptism of John or Jesus which one.

wilburn — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:23:58 GMT

Ephesinas 4
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

JOHN’S BAPTISM
Mark 1
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

BAPTISM Christian baptism a dipping under - the ceremony or sacrament of admitting a person into Christianity or a specific Christian church by immersing the individual in water or by pouring or sprinkling water on the individual, as a “SYMBOL OF WASHING AWAY SIN” and of spiritual purification 2 any experience or ordeal that initiates, tests, or purifies
Symbol; 1 something that stands for, represents, or suggests another thing;

13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

JOHN3
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

JESUS BAPTISM
(John 14:),
6 "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life:, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Matthew 3
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly PURGE his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

PURGE to cleanse - clean 1 to cleanse or rid of impurities, foreign matter, or undesirable elements 2 to CLEANSE OF GUILT, SIN, or Ceremonial Defilement 3 to remove by cleansing; clear (away, off , or out )

IMPURE (im py r ) adj. not pure; unclean; dirty b) unclean according to religious ritual; defiled.

FOREIGN not natural to the person or thing specified; not belonging; not characteristic [a trait foreign to one's nature] b) not pertinent; irrelevant 6 not organically belonging; introduced from outside: said of substances found in parts of the body or in organisms where they do not naturally occur. Parasites, Devils and Demons of every kind.

posted in Christian talk - 8 replies

"Pray without ceasing." How do you do it?

Josh — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 16:51:52 GMT

Paul said that.
How are we to take it?
Even after allowing for hyperbole, can this mean anything less than frequent, daily prayer?

In Catholic seminary (--and I am *not* here arguing for a Catholic approach but sharing my experience), we had to say The Liturgy of the Hours, or Divine Office. We said Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer in common (as well as daily Mass). The LOTH is based on the Psalter, a four-week arrangement of the Psalms and other biblical canticles (-Isaiah, Jeremiah, Philipians, Ephesians, Colosians, Revelation). It seemed mechanical at first but now I treasure this way of praying.
I'm considering going to an evangelical seminary to finish my education, though I'm sure I would take my breviary with me. That's how I learned to pray daily, morning and evening, regardless. (I pray at other times of the day too, and I pray in other ways, but this is my bedrock.)

How do you approach the Scriptural command to "pray without ceasing"?

posted in Christian talk - 12 replies

Enduring until the end

Willthecirclebeunbroken — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:57:53 GMT

Running the good race ? Many suffer hardships today and sometimes we all have the steep side of the mountian to climb. God is constantly in these last days bringing the signs of the times to our attention. Keeping abreast of the facts around you. Seeing the Holy Spirit move throughout the earth. The joining and coming together of all God's children in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Just over the horizon is a new heaven and new earth coming and Jesus is bringing it. God never breaks a promise.

Man is about to take himself to the edge of Technology through DNA. Take a look at this video please.
See what is going on now in Bioethics.
http://www.afr.net/newafr/talk/index.htm

posted in Christian talk - 0 replies

What would you say?

Josh — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:52:51 GMT

Suppose you correspond with someone you cannot visit. A friendship develops and the conversation branches out in many directions—politics, literature, music, childhood, marriage, whatever—ending up for today in a consideration of religion / spirituality / ethics / morality, the gamut. Your faithful correspondent—whom you respect and feel comfortable with, and who has much more free time than you do—writes to you, “Tell me three things to read that will give me the best possible sense of *your* approach to such questions.”

What would you say? What three works would you name?

If the issue were English poetry, my answers today would be: Hamlet, Paradise Lost, and The Hunting of the Snark.

But that’s not the issue. The issue today is what three works give someone else (-and someone I like, someone I respect, who is asking in an attempt to get to know me better, not to raise a ruckus of any kind) the best sense of *my* approach to religious / spiritual / moral / ethical questions.

I would say the Nichomachean Ethics of Aristotle, the Bible, and the great Summa of Aquinas. I think anyone familiar with those three works—whatever he thought of them—would have a good sense of how I’ve come to think about such matters.

What three books would you list?

If you’re not interested in religion or in spirituality but only in ethics and morality, just list three about that.

I ask out of simple curiosity. I’m not angling for an argument of any sort here. I want to see which titles come up the most often, and which ones are new to me!

[Cross-posted in Atheists, Christian Talk, Christianity Unplugged, Politics, and The Lion’s Den.]

posted in Christian talk - 1 reply

What is the mystery of the Gospel?

Ricardo — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:16:55 GMT

<Ricardo,

<Open your mouths boldly and make known the mystery of the gospel!>
Peter:<What is the mystery of the Gospel? >

Ricardo:< LOL! lets start another thread for this one!

posted in Christian talk - 35 replies

to know Him

wyldstar — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:49:40 GMT

to me, reading the gospels is a way to know Jesus,
prayer is a way to know him too.
I was wondering, what do YOU do to know Him better?

posted in Christian talk - 13 replies

HOLY LAUGHTER,,,,is it holy?

The Passenger — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:44:49 GMT

http://www.demonbuster.com/holylaug.html

posted in Christian talk - 12 replies

1 Timothy 5:18

Josh — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:51:13 GMT

[Cross-poseted in Christianity Unplugged]

In their book, I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist, evangelical authors Norman Geisler and Frank Turek assert that between the years 62-65, Paul alluded to a verse from the Gospel According to Luke (10:7) and called it “Scripture.”

That’s a busy assertion for more reasons than I wish to deal with here, though at least two things must be acknowledged in passing. The reference in question (1 Tim 5:18) is from one of the Pastoral Epistles, which most contemporary biblical scholars 1) deny that Paul wrote and 2) assume was written some decades after his death. Nothing I say here hinges on who wrote the verse in question or when. What matters is that the verse in question is part of the New Testament.

What interests me is the possibility of one NT author referring to another NT work as “Scripture.”

1 Timothy 5:18 reads as follows in the KJV: For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. (The quote about the ox is from Deuteronomy 25:4.)
Luke 10:7 reads as follows in the KJV: And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

The phrase we are focused on is “the labourer is worthy of his hire." (Some translations use "wages.")

My Bibles—a modest set, to be sure—note the allusion to DT 25: 4 (-not to muzzle the ox) but give *no* OT citation for “the labourer is worthy of his hire / reward / wages.”

1) Does anyone here have a Bible whose notes contain a reference to this being an OT passage?
2) If this is *not* an OT passage, is there a reasonable alternative to thinking that the author of 1 Timothy 5:18 was referring to Luke 10:7 *as* Scripture? (One possibility might be that the phrase comprised part of the Oral Torah that some first century Jews, including Pharisees such as Paul, might have considered Scripture.)
3) What do you see as the significance—if true—that one NT author refers to another as having written “Scripture”?

posted in Christian talk - 6 replies

"the power of possitive thinking" By. Norman Vincient Peal

The Passenger — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:32:43 GMT

here is something I learned from a book called:
"the power of possitive thinking" By. Norman Vincient Peal

There was this young good looking heathy young man
Who could not figure out why so many people disliked him
He was smart....well off fiantially....and even gave $ to a good couse now and then

He lived in a pent house in the city
Everyday he would board the elevator to go to work
The attendant of the elevator was always nice to all the other people
But to the young man there was a very uncomfortable coldness between them
the only time they spoke ..there was always just a growling mumering forced good morning

This young man came to Normans Church and told him about his problem of getting people to like him..............
"I do my best" he explained
Norman realized that the young man possed in his speech a critical and un-happy attitude towwards others
He seemed to think he was a superior man
He was very rigid with no flexability of personality
"Is there some way I can stop un-cosciouly rubbing people the wrong way"the young man asked Norman
"You are self centered and Egotistical" The person you really like is yourself" Norman replied
"You are trying to make everybody over to suit yourself"..." you are judgemental"
uncosiouly people realize this...though sometimes they cannot put there finger on it right away
Barriers are erected in thier minds against you
Since you are being unplessant to people in your thoughts...it carry through to the way you treat them in your actions
Sure you are polite enough...but it is the vibe that you have...a bad vibe
Your intentions are good..but they are afraid

one meathod we suggest to him was this:
at night when you go to bed...make a list of all the people you met that day...learn their names
Pray for all the little people places and things that surround your little world

The next morning he made the effort to start a conversation with the elevator attendant
He asked him about his family and about his interests
He found that he actually had some intesteing views...and was quite funny
they talked more and more each day....
He begain to see the elevator man as more than the mechanical robot he has seen before
who's only purpose in life was to run the elevator up and down all day
He started trying to see all the good things about thuis man he could think of
and pushing away the negative thoughts
he even made a list
1. this man works hard for his famil
2. he is funny
3. he always know when it's ganna rain an is i will need an umbrella
4. who knows what this man has been though....
5. who knows what i could learn from an older man
6. He is a veteran...I owe my freedom to brave men like him
7. He dosn't have to be nice to all the people in this elevator..but goes the extra mile
8.He is well liked9.
9.I should give him a tip tommarrow...i think I will...that would make me feel better too..
10. I should write a good comment about him to the hotel mng.

He was eventually invited over to his house to join his familly for dinner
and today they are best friends....And today the young man is well liked
He aplied these rules at work...and he climed the latter...and got a promation
he appied the rules to his family.....and he has a loving relationship with them..and they oftern even come to him for advice

posted in Christian talk - 0 replies

if it was up to you

wyldstar — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:15:27 GMT

if it was up to you what would happen when you got to heaven?

posted in Christian talk - 11 replies

NEW TRIBES..tribe

The Passenger — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 01:06:11 GMT

TIRED OF TROLLING TO FIND COOL NEW TRIBES?

New Tribes Tribe
http://tribes.tribe.net/20e645e8-4c15-4c14-9244-31850725a277

I had thought about starting a tribe called new tribes tribe
you know it is so hard to boost your tribes w\ithout being a troll or nuisance

so I thought about perhaps starting a tribe called new tribes

<<<Not only limited to New tribes...but all tribes that are looking for fresh voices, enlightenment, and more participation>>>>

In this tribe you can post info. about your tribes...perhaps provide links to your most interesting threads in you past topical archives

also ask others to make deals to invite 3 or more of thier friends to your tribe.......
(certain friends that they feel would be intested in that tribe)
And you would intern do the same for their tribe

So in that thread titled after the name of your tribe...others will sign on to deals with you to boost each others tribe\tribes with 3 or more invites of close friends

Of course to do this you both must join each others tribes to activate the invite friends to tribe option
ALSO PROVIDE IN THAT THREAD LINKS TO YOUR TRIBE

responders will intern join your tribe and post links to their tribe...and contact you both in your thread and personally to ensure a quick response and to make sure both parties are interested in endorsing each others tribe idea

In threads it is also encouraged that you let others know what you think about these new tribes....but, be nice...even if you don't agree....It's called constructive critisism
I hate deleating threads...In fact, I have never had to deleate a single thread or remove a single person from any of my 13 tribes.....

ALREADY A MEMBER OF TOO MANY TRIBES?....SOLUTION

http://tribes.tribe.net/20e645e8-4c15-4c14-9244-31850725a277/thread/fcebd4c3-04ad-4f77-b9f3-334c58bb8311

How to... invite friends to somene elses tribe...101

http://tribes.tribe.net/20e645e8-4c15-4c14-9244-31850725a277/thread/aa15ed3a-dd71-4517-8373-5049aedb358d

Has your tribe gone cold?...Tips to get your tribe BURNING MAN!!!!

http://tribes.tribe.net/20e645e8-4c15-4c14-9244-31850725a277/thread/f1c406fa-1a73-4fd6-bfab-3d69592e17ce

Thanks,
The Passenger

posted in Christian talk - 0 replies

seeing and hearing within God's Temple

wilburn — Sat, 29 Sep 2007 03:40:51 GMT

URL: www.ccel.org/ccel/joseph...es/hades.htm

You can see the light within and hear the sound and this is even more proff that it is real.

"Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine.... This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls"

"For there is one descent into this region, at whose gate we believe there stands an archangel with an host; which gate when those pass through that are conducted down by the angels appointed over souls, they do not go the same way; but the just are guided to the right hand... unto a region of light, in which the just have dwelt from the beginning of the world; ... but the countenance of the just, which they see, always smiles them, while they wait for that rest and eternal new life in heaven, which is to succeed this region. This place we call The Bosom of Abraham"

"This is the discourse concerning Hades, wherein the souls of all men are confined until a proper season, which God hath determined, when he will make a resurrection of all men from the dead, not procuring a transmigration of souls from one body to another, but raising again those very bodies, which you Greeks, seeing to be dissolved, do not believe [their resurrection].... We have therefore believed that the body will be raised again; for although it be dissolved, it is not perished; for the earth receives its remains, and preserves them; and while they are like seed, and are mixed among the more fruitful soil, they flourish, and what is sown is indeed sown bare grain, but at the mighty sound of God the Creator, it will sprout up, and be raised in a clothed and glorious condition, though not before it has been dissolved, and mixed [with the earth]. So that we have not rashly believed the resurrection of the body; for although it be dissolved for a time on account of the original transgression, it exists still, and is cast into the earth as into a potter's furnace, in order to be formed again, not in order to rise again such as it was before, but in a state of purity, and so as never to he destroyed any more. And to every body shall its own soul be restored. And when it hath clothed itself with that body, it will not be subject to misery, but, being itself pure, it will continue with its pure body, and rejoice with it, with which it having walked righteously now in this world.... But as for the unjust, they will receive their bodies not changed, not freed from diseases or distempers, nor made glorious, but with the same diseases wherein they died; and such as they were in their unbelief, the same shall they be when they shall be faithfully judged."

"For all men, the just as well as the unjust, shall be brought before God the word: for to him hath the Father committed all judgment : and he, in order to fulfill the will of his Father, shall come as Judge, whom we call Christ."

**** Note that Josephus of the 1st century has here called Jesus "God the word" and yet separate from the Father.

"And now, if you Gentiles will be persuaded by these motives, and leave your vain imaginations about your pedigrees, and gaining of riches, and philosophy, and will not spend your time about subtleties of words, and thereby lead your minds into error, and if you will apply your ears to the hearing of the inspired prophets, the interpreters both of God and of his word, and will believe in God, you shall both be partakers of these things, and obtain the good things that are to come; you shall see the ascent unto the immense heaven plainly, and that kingdom which is there. For what God hath now concealed in silence [will be then made manifest,] what neither eye hath seen, nor ear hath heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love him.

In whatsoever ways I shall find you, in them shall I judge you entirely: so cries the END of all things. And he who hath at first lived a virtuous lift, but towards the latter end falls into vice, these labors by him before endured shall be altogether vain and unprofitable, even as in a play, brought to an ill catastrophe. Whosoever shall have lived wickedly and luxuriously may repent; however, there will be need of much time to conquer an evil habit, and even after repentance his whole life must be guarded with great care and diligence, after the manner of a body, which, after it hath been a long time afflicted with a distemper, requires a stricter diet and method of living; for though it may be possible, perhaps, to break off the chain of our irregular affections at once, yet our amendment cannot be secured without the grace of God, the prayers of good men, the help of the brethren, and our own sincere repentance and constant care. It is a good thing not to sin at all; it is also good, having sinned, to repent; as it is best to have health always, but it is a good thing to recover from a distemper. To God be glory and dominion for ever and ever Amen."

Jesus told you, you can see and hear if you believe.
I AM telling you can see the light within with your own eyes. And you can hear the word of God within only if you believe in and do the will of God.

Seeing the light and hearing the word within means you have life everlasting.

posted in Christian talk - 0 replies

Our Love One for Another

Peter — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:30:18 GMT

It is written that disciples of Jesus are identified by their love one for another. But how is it possible for us to show love for one another online?

When I have fellowship/discussion in person, over a meal, or ending with a hug, it feels very different from my online fellowship/discussions, which tend to feel more like debates. Online communication is text only, and often seems to end in faith being doubted, because of words and not because of deeds. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. But, sometimes, it feels like we’re tearing each other down, rather than building each other up. I mean something more than just being nice. I mean how do we show love to one another.

I’m relatively new to the online blogging experience, and I’m aware that I’m not good at demonstrating Christian love online. I’m struggling to be understood. So, maybe it’s just something I’m feeling.
Anyone have suggestions or solutions regarding love demonstrations that they would like to share?

Peace,
Peter

posted in Christian talk - 29 replies

The question

goahead — Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:01:11 GMT

It all really comes down to this
question.

Have you trusted and given your life
over to JESUS CHRIST?

Have you?

posted in Christian talk - 11 replies

the not-so-holy hermit

Joseph — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:12:59 GMT

"He who separates himself seeks his own desire; he quarrels against all sound wisdom." [Proverbs 18:1, NASB]

posted in Christian talk - 24 replies

What do we make of Hebrews 13:17?

Joseph — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:09:55 GMT

It is de rigeuer these days to criticize denominationalism, creeds, doctrines and other trappings of organized religion. I share in making some of the criticisms. But it is no solution to view oneself as an "independent operator" in this Christian walk. For example, how can one practice the discipline of submission to church leadership --as discussed in Heb. 13:17 and elsewhere-- outside of membership in a body of believers? To whom is one accountable and whom is one in turn holding accountable?

posted in Christian talk - 52 replies

Your Calling to the "Ministry"

favoriteson — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:15:48 GMT

I have been asked to teach a six-week Bible study at Kingdom Building Ministries (in Aurora, Colorado) entitled, "Living a Plan A Life." It is designed to help you discover YOUR unique and distinct role in bringing God's love and eternal purpose to those who are in your sphere of influence.

Most of us have been led to believe that we are not called to the ministry because we do not have the ability to preach, teach or sing. Well here is the reality...Jesus is looking for everyday ordinary disciples who are willing to live each day looking for ways to change the world.

Many who don't have a relationship with God will never step foot in a church building to find Him. The good news is, he created YOU to bring "the church" to them. You can be their "minister," sharing God's love with them in up close and personal ways. Your story can be "the steeple" that points them to Jesus. Your home and dinner table can be "the sanctuary" where they sense God's presence and get to know His people. And your life can be a living "testament" to God's love and grace.

If that's your desire, (and you live in Colorado) please send an email to ministry@laborersinaction.com and let me know that you would like to participate. If there is enough interest, I will begin the study within the next 2 weeks. I will send the dates and times for the study to those of you who would like to take advantage of this opportunity.

Please copy this message and forward it by email invitation to anyone you know in Colorado who you believe would be interested in attending.

Browse www.planaconnection.com for more information about the Plan A message. I look forward to hearing from you.

Peace and Blessings,

Eric Canaday
Life & Ministry Coach
Laborers In Action, Inc.

www.laborersinaction.com
"Empowerment for Your Life's Work"

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The Didache

Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:13:34 GMT

For those who may not have read this book yet, it is a good read. I just read it tonight for the first time. Supposedly, it is dated as early as 70AD and is the shortest, to the point instructions I have ever read on being a Christian, the Church, Baptism, and End Times. What a all-for-one special!

www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html

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"The darkest places in hell...

Josh — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:25:23 GMT

are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in a time of moral crisis."

Dante Aligheri

That quote popped up on my home page (--ModeRoom Literary Quotes) and I thought I'd pass it along.

posted in Christian talk - 1 reply

What do we mean by ‘religious authority’?

Josh — Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:55:31 GMT

I’ve run into the phrase a few times lately and am wondering if we all mean the same thing by it.

I remember reading Hannah Arendt’s “What Was Authority” some years ago, an essay in which she argued that authority had vanished from the Western world and that there was no longer a common experience of it to which all educated people might refer. (The Romans, she thought, knew what authority was but we—generally speaking—do not.)

So what do we mean by authority? Is it power, or control, or legitimacy? (Or something else?)
I am not looking to enforce any particular understanding of the term, but rather asking how me here in this tribe (-and the few others where I intend to post this) take it mean when we write it or read it.

It might be helpful to give an example of what you do and don't call religous authority.

I see the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church as an example of religous authority but don't see the Southern Baptist Convention (-or the leadership thereof) is an example of religious authority. I suspect that's a minority position hereabouts. All the more reason for you to give me examples of what YOU mean by "religious authority" (-provided you use the term).

posted in Christian talk - 1 reply

EXCEEDING THE RIGHTEOUSNESS

Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:14:41 GMT

http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000264.htm

Antipas Ministries

EXCEEDING THE RIGHTEOUSNESS
OF THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES

Part 3 in our series on the "Gospel of the Kingdom"]
Sept. 4, 2007
By: S.R. Shearer
"For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall IN NO CASE enter the kingdom of heaven."

- Matthew 5:20

INTRODUCTION
This is the third article in our series on the "Gospel of the Kingdom." Our first article dealt primarily with the REALITY of this Gospel, and its relevance for today: Specifically as an ANTIDOTE to the claims of the American New World Order System, a system that - together with the American church and its toadies throughout the world - falsely claims to represent Christ on earth. [Please see "The Kingdom of God is at Hand."]

In our second article on the "Gospel of the Kingdom" we dwelt at some length on the RECIPIENTS of the Kingdom of Heaven: the POOR of the earth - the "sons and daughters," so to speak, of Chad, the Congo, Sierra Leone, Guatemala, Brazil, Vietnam,, etc. - the people who have been so RUTHLESSLY and BRUTALLY oppressed by the American New World Order System. [Please see our article, "Christians in Africa Awake! America and the American Church Are Not Your Friends."

These are the people to whom Jesus SPECIFICALLY came and announced the "good news" of the coming kingdom:

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL [OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN] TO THE POOR …" (Luke 4:18) [Please see our second article on the kingdom, "The Principles of the Kingdom."]

IT'S THE POOR WHO LONG
FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
It is the poor of the earth who long for the coming kingdom, not the rich; not those who are surrounded by the wealth of Babylon, OR who directly or indirectly benefit from this HORRIBLE system of brutality and oppression.

The rich aren't really looking for the establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth. They're not the ones who pray earnestly "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10)

The rich have their sh-- together in this life! They're happy with things as they are now; to be sure, it's not that everything is perfect at present, but they're working on it and have high hopes that soon everything will be as near "perfect" as things can be - especially if they can get that new job, that new car, that new home. What idiocy! What blindness! - these are precisely the "Fat-Cats" about whom Jesus said:

"Thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with [material] goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art [spiritually] WRETCHED, and MISERABLE, and POOR, and BLIND, and NAKED." (Revelation 3:17)

It is exactly for this reason that Jesus said of the rich -

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a [sewing] needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

And make no mistake about it - He had in mind not just so-called unbelievers, but those who profess to be Christians - those who confess Christ with their tongues, but whose hearts are far from Him:

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

"In vain they do worship me …" (Matthew 15:8-9)

DISENTANGLING ONE'S SELF
FROM THE AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE
Finally, we dwelt at some length on the necessity for all those who wish to act as heralds of the coming Kingdom of Christ to DISENTANGLE themselves COMPLETELY from the "AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE." The Bible says:

"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

EXCEEDING THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF
THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES
Now - in this third article - we come to the matter of Matthew 5:20:

"For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall IN NO CASE enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)

Now that's heavy! That's really heavy. It is precisely the scribes and the Pharisees who in their daily lives bent every effort to keep the Law - and we are called to EXCEED their righteousness? If they can't do it, what chance do we have? And, as if to make matters worse, Jesus went on to say:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18)

There are, of course, many people who cavalierly gloss over these warnings - who say blissfully in their hearts, "These verses do not apply to me; I trust Christ for my righteousness." But these are like those about whom the Apostle James warned:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils [demons] also believe, and tremble." (James 2:19)

PERSONAL PIETY COUNTS FOR
LITTLE IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
It's one thing to say you believe; it's quite another thing for you to demonstrate BY THE WAY YOU LIVE that you actually do so - AND MORE THAN JUST PERSONAL PIETY IS IN QUESTION HERE. The Bible says:

"And he [i.e., Jesus] spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

"I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." (Luke 18:9-14)

The righteousness that the scribes and the Pharisees trusted in was the PERSONAL piety that they exhibited in their lives. They did everything right: they were not "extortioners," they were not "unjust," they were not "adulterers" (Luke 18:11); they prayed (Matthew 6:5), they fasted, they gave tithes, etc. (Luke 18:12). But the Bible says that those who concentrate on perfecting their PERSONAL piety are double-minded; they are more interested in making a show than anything else. These are the kind of people about whom Jesus said -

"When ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward." (Matthew 6:16)

Their religious life is wrapped up in their own personal piety - A KIND OF PIETY THAT JESUS SAID WILL COUNT FOR NOTHING INSOFAR AS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS CONCERNED. NOTHING! Again, that's not what I say, it's what Jesus says:

"I say unto you , that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall IN NO CASE enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)

So much, then, for appraising a man's Christianity on the basis of that person's personal piety. By that standard, Ghandi must have been a Christian - AND HE WAS NOT!

ONE'S CHRISTIANITY MUST EXTEND
TO THOSE WHO SURROUND HIM
No! - one's Christianity must extend well beyond the realm of one's personal life. Jesus said:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

"But I say unto you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU, DO GOOD TO THEM THAT HATE YOU, AND PRAY FOR THEM WHICH DESPITEFULLY USE YOU, AND PERSECUTE YOU;

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

"For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

"And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?" (Matthew 5:43-47)

This is what the Kingdom of Heaven is all about: "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

Again, Jesus said:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

"And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. (Matthew 5:38-40)

This too is what the Kingdom of Heaven is all about: "Whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," and "If any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also," and "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

This kind of righteousness has an outcome! It extends well beyond the range of one's personal piety. This is the kind of "righteousness" that Jesus exhibited on the cross:

"For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Roman 5:7-8)

This is the kind of righteousness upon which the Kingdom of Heaven is founded; the kind that Jesus commended to the "Seventy" as they took leave of Him after the Sermon on the Mount to go out and preach the "good news" of the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 10:1) - and THIS IS PRECISELY THE KIND OF CHRISTIANITY THAT SETS APART THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN FROM THE CHRISTIANITY THAT JUSTIFIES THE AMERICAN NEW WORLD ORDER SYSTEM. This is the kind of Christianity that the poor of the earth can embrace, that the so-called enemies of Christ can embrace, those which today's Christianity never tires of condemning: those in the gay and lesbian community, liberals, people like Jane Fonda, the "lefties" of this world, etc. - not the greedy, self-righteous, war-loving Christianity embraced by Chuck Colson who said,

"Out of love of neighbor, Christians can and should support a preemptive strike [against Iran]."

OR the kind of war-making Christianity embraced by pastor John MacArthur who said:

"I don't think we're starting a war. I think a war [has] already started. The only question is what are we going to [do with] a war that has already started."

OR the kind of empire-building Christianity embraced by Charles Stanley when he defended the so-called "War on Terror" by saying -

"Throughout Scripture there is evidence that God favors war for divine reasons and sometimes uses it to accomplish His will. He has also given governments and their citizens very specific responsibilities in regards to this matter. How can we justify the protests and marches against war? I understand that, in America, for example, we have a right to express our different opinions. However, there comes a time when our personal opinion is not a priority. The only reason we have the freedom to protest in this country is because thousands were willing to die for that liberty in the past."

How can it possibly be said that the Christianity embraced by these church leaders is the kind of Christianity that can IN ANY WAY be tied to the principles that undergird the Kingdom of Heaven; again, principles which clearly tell us to -

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." (Matthew 5:44)

PRINCIPLES THAT "SET APART"
These are the principles of the Kingdom of Heaven: principles that clearly set apart the Kingdom of Heaven from the American New World Order System which - together with the American church and its toadies throughout the world - falsely claims to represent Christ on earth. One cannot be united to the one system, and remain a part of the other. The Bible says:

"What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Cor. 6:14)

What's that say, then, about Chuck Colson, D. James Kennedy, Charles Stanley and John MacArthur? Plainly it says that the kingdom they have embraced is NOT the Kingdom of Heaven.

WE ARE NOW AT THE "END OF THE AGE"
Brothers and sisters, I tell you the truth: We are now at the "end of the age" and THERE IS A GREAT SEPARATION THAT IS OCCURRING, AND THAT SEPARATION HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH OUR OWN PERSONAL PIETY, AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HOW WE RELATE TO ONE OF THESE TWO KINGDOMS:

THE AMERICAN NEW WORLD ORDER SYSTEM.

THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

You CANNOT associate yourself with one kingdom and still call yourself a member of the other. What's that say about those who are comfortable with this life here on earth; what's that say about those who continue trying to "perfect" their lives with one new purchase, a new house, a new car, etc. What's that say about those who refuse to disassociate themselves with the American New World Order System and the apostate church that supports that system?

JESUS IS COMING AGAIN
In Psalm 72 (which all Bible expositors recognize as a "psalm of the kingdom") the Bible says that Jesus is coming again to -

"JUDGE the poor of the people [i.e., the weak, the afflicted, the wretched of the earth], he shall save the children of the needy, and shall BREAK IN PIECES THE OPPRESSOR [i.e., "the sons and daughters" of Babylon].

"He shall come down [upon them] like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth." (Psalm 72:4, 6)

Now you must understand something here: the word "judge" (Qal) here means to "plead for," to "minister to," to vindicate." In other words, Jesus is coming again to take up the cause of the poor of the earth - the "sons and daughters" of Chad, the Sudan, the Congo, Guatemala, Venezuela, Bolivia, etc. - the very people that the American New World Order System has BRUTALIZED and OPPRESSED.

The psalm continues:

"He shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.

"He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

"He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and PRECIOUS SHALL THEIR BLOOD BE IN HIS SIGHT." (Psalm 72:12-14)

YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED AS A HERALD
This is the "good news" that has been delivered into our hands - THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM. It is a gospel that has been carefully crafted to rip away the false piety of today's American New World Order System and the harlot church that justifies this system; but not just that: It has also been crafted to "test" the nature of your Christianity:

And so I say unto all of you: TAKE HEED TO YOURSELVES before it's too late! The Bible says:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

"Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is." (1 Cor 3:12-13)

God bless you all,

S.R. Shearer
Antipas Ministries

P.S. Remember the Word of God:

"IF WE HAVE SOWN UNTO YOU SPIRITUAL THINGS, IS IT A GREAT THING IF WE SHALL REAP YOUR CARNAL (MATERIAL) THINGS?" (1 Cor. 9:11)

Antipas Ministries
P.O. Box 160863
Sacramento, CA 95816-0863

posted in Christian talk - 5 replies

in India since the 4th. century

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:57:22 GMT

http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/archives/2006/04.22.06/index_sat.php

Zinda magazine

It charts the missionary activities of the Syrian Church from the 8th century to the 13th century, when its numbers may have been comparable to those of Rome or the Orthodox Church, and 25 metropolitan archbishops obeyed its Nestorian patriarch. It had been in India since at least the 4thcentury, in Ceylon by the 6th century, was well established in China by the 7thcentury and, before the tide of Islam, in the 8th century even had a remote southernmost diocese in, of all places, Java.

posted in Christian talk - 3 replies

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in India since the 4th. century

*Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?**